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Daizenshuu- Exact; Concrete
Topic Started: Aug 9 2010, 07:48 AM (1,324 Views)
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I dont know all of what the Daizenshuu says.
But what i would like to to know is what EXACTLY are the SSJ multipliers.
I know SSJ = x 50
SSJ2?? ive heard its x 10 of SSJ?
SSJ3 has been claimed as x 5 and x 8.


Can someone please give me the CONCRETE multipliers?
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p123
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Hey I believe you are talking about the SEG multipliers.

SSJ x50
SSJ2 x2
SSJ3 x2

I believe that's them... These are my multipliers. Which I find more factual...


SSJ = 50x until FPSSJ

SSJ2 Ranges from 2-4 based on level of mastery

SSJ3 Ranges from 2-4 based on level of mastery

Basically you cant reach SSJ2 until your a FPSSJ. Then you can't reach SSJ3 until your SSJ2 is maxed out. It works its simple. its logical. Try em out.
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The SEG is the book that gives the numbers from Akira's mouth.

Super Saiyan: 50x Base
Super Saiyan 2: 2x Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3: 4x Super Saiyan 2

But you don't necessarily have to take those numbers to heart. In the same interview, Akira admits he forgot most of his own story, so if he forgot his own story, how can he genuinely and accurately give strength indicators? That's just my opinion though.
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J-Smack
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2x what level of SS? I mean, FPSS?
darkwarrior
 
has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe Trunks just bought his sword somewhere or something? There's nothing really special about it.

Y2J
 
Well it did manage to slice Frieza into a shishkebab so it must've been packing more power than your average blade. Hell even Zelda's sword couldn't pull off that ****.



ObsessiveFanGirl
 
I don't believe in power levels after the Frieza Saga. :D
Now, there's an idea.
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J-Smack
Aug 10 2010, 02:55 AM
2x what level of SS? I mean, FPSS?
Full-Power Super Saiyan probably. I think you need to master that form before you can ascend to Super Saiyan 2. But I don't believe you need to master Super Saiyan 2 in order to get to Super Saiyan 3. I mean, I don't think Goku showed any signs of having mastered the form.
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Yeah true i believe you just have to become powerful enough as a SSJ2 to ascend.

Are you sure these are concrete?
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DbzHybrid
Aug 10 2010, 10:18 AM
Yeah true i believe you just have to become powerful enough as a SSJ2 to ascend.

Are you sure these are concrete?
I'm 100% certain.
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p123
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I believe Goku mastered SSJ2.

Goku's SSJ is weaker than Gohan's SSJ yet Goku's SSJ2 is stronger than Gohan's SSJ2.

Also Goku has SSJ3.

Based on all of that I would conclude that Goku indeed was a FPSSJ2.

I mean based on the evidence in the manga, you need to be a FPSSJ to reach SSJ2. Now why wouldn't you need to do the same to reach SSJ3? You would it would only make sense.


And to reach SSJ4 ( Not talking GT here if there was something after 3 which theres not ) you would have to master SSJ3.

It logical .


Also based on Gokui's FPSSJ is how I was able to figure out the multiplier.


I used SEG, Daiz , Jump Weekly all as guides not as strict factual data.



You are very knowledgable Kamikaze why don't you come check us out here...

[url]edited out[/url]
Edited by NeciFiX, Aug 11 2010, 09:25 PM.
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J-Smack
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Advertiser!

Anyway, why is Goku's SSJ weaker than Gohan's? I mean, is there even a way to tell if there is any differenece between different saiyans' FPSSJs?

Which, I suppose, brings about a question of mine: Can you continue to train as only an SSJ and eventually become more powerful than some other saiyan's SSJ2? If FPSSJs can differ, is it because, is it because you can train yourself in one stage and continue to power up without transforming?

Sorry, lots of question, but it's hard to condense it.
darkwarrior
 
has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe Trunks just bought his sword somewhere or something? There's nothing really special about it.

Y2J
 
Well it did manage to slice Frieza into a shishkebab so it must've been packing more power than your average blade. Hell even Zelda's sword couldn't pull off that ****.



ObsessiveFanGirl
 
I don't believe in power levels after the Frieza Saga. :D
Now, there's an idea.
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Sorry if I come off as rude with this post, I don't intend it at all.

I really don't think when Goku said "we've reached our limits" to Gohan, that he meant their limits as Super Saiyans. I'm almost 100% sure he basically meant "alright, we've done all we can do with training, so let's not waste time and possibly devolve". Besides, Goku's broken past his limits before. It's not so farfetch'd to say, if there even was some wall he'd reached, that he broke that easily, and then went Super Saiyan 2. The way I see it (and the way it honestly looks) is that their transformations are linear, meaning Super Saiyan 3 depends on Super Saiyan 2, and so on and so on. If he'd reached some wall that he couldn't get past, there's no way he could be stronger than Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2.

There's also Vegeta that we have to factor in here. He's stronger than Gohan here as well, and Goku is stronger than Vegeta. If there was some wall, Vegeta would've hit it much later in his power progression than the Sons (Goku & Gohan), so he would technically be stronger than them, and we know that's not true.

As for Full-Power Super Saiyan 2, I don't think Goku did that either. It does look like he's used to the form, but I don't think he completely mastered it. Super Saiyan 3 works differently than the previous two levels, so it doesn't seem like it would require that to ascend to honestly. If Goku mastered Super Saiyan 2 to get to Super Saiyan 3, it would seem like Vegeta be able to do the same thing, but he didn't.
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Kamikaze thats what i think.
Vegeta and Goku were relatively the same strength as SSJ2 so if Goku could go SSJ3 then so could Vegeta. Gohan's SSJ2 was only weaker cause he didnt train. And even then when Gohan first turned SSJ2, Vegeta and Goku would be around the same lvl or higher for their first time.
No way they were FPSSJ2/MSSJ2, it's never even mentioned or related to in the slightest.
Look at how much stronger stronger FPSSJ/MSSJ is compared to standard SSJ or ASSJ. Its a heck of alot stronger. So if they mastered SSJ2 Vegeta and Goku would have been way stronger than what they were.
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Wintergreen5000
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Kamikaze Pyro
Aug 9 2010, 06:15 PM
The SEG is the book that gives the numbers from Akira's mouth.

Super Saiyan: 50x Base
Super Saiyan 2: 2x Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3: 4x Super Saiyan 2

But you don't necessarily have to take those numbers to heart. In the same interview, Akira admits he forgot most of his own story, so if he forgot his own story, how can he genuinely and accurately give strength indicators? That's just my opinion though.
That can't be right. That would mean that Cell became a lot less than twice as powerful when he went full power. And even after he went 'super' he would've still been weaker than half of SSjin 2 Kid Gohan's ki. That just doesn't make any sense.
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Crazy Awesome Legend

Does it not? Zenkai's at this time didn't seem to do much at all. If Cell did recieve one it surely would be no different to the ones the Saiyans get after being beaten by the Androids, or even Cell. His power level would not be dramatically different. Gohan only struggled because of his injury.


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p123
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Gohan had to increase a lot more than 2x. If he did Perfect Cells full power would be minimal increase from when he fought SSJ Gohan and Goku. It is said that it is a huge power up. I have Gohan at 55% of PC real power.

Gohan could range from 50-70% of PC real power wouldn't go any higher than that though.



FPSSJ is a limit!

Goku says the others have room to improve.

Which means he and Gohan cannot improve. Or else their ***** would be in the damn Rosat.


Goku tells him they have pushed as far as they can go.


Everything says limit here!



SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan in the BUu arc are never noted. Power changes are always noted! SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan are the exact same as they are in the Buu arc as they are in the Cell games.
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Wintergreen5000
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Even though Goku said that it really doesn't make sense. Vegeta surpassed SSjin Teen Gohan, and Teen Gohan was hardly anything weaker than when he was as a kid, indicated by his fight with Dabra. It is possible that what Goku meant when he said they had taken their bodies as far as they could go was that there was no point in continuing training because they had already mastered the state. His mentality was "Hey, we went in, we did our thang; we trained. Now let's see what good it did us." But personally, I think it's something Goku just said because he wanted Gohan to have a good time when they came out of the RoSaT. This was because, as he later explained, he noticed that the only way they would truly win is if they relied on Gohan's hidden power to carry the day, and not their own. AND IT WORKED. Goku knew what his son was capable of; so he knew that wasting another day in the RoSaT that could be used for the future would've done no good. Why waste time when you know there will be one thing and one thing only that will save the world? Just my thoughts.
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